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A Joyful Messenger
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Posts: 296


How do we learn to communicate and learn listening skils?


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**JOYFUL MESSENGER

August 29, 2013 at 9:24 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ruth Currah
Site Owner
Posts: 567

Sad to say, your picture did not come through. Perhaps you should try again and make it smaller.

 

Communication and Listening skills should use all four steps of our brain: to perceive, fear and love, beliefs, and patience and action. We basically are putting ourselves in the other person's shoes and empathizing with them to better understand what they are saying. So we need to sharpen up the four steps of the brain in the Upper Nature (the social nature) and not get caught in any uncalled for Lower Nature trickery: deception, greed, blaming, and aggression unless it is really needed for survival of self and others. We need to listen to our Lower Nature to see if the speaker is threatening or defensive with us.

 

I go over free tips on how to do this at my Personal Journey, the button directly above on the navigation bar.. Basically it is learning how to sharpen our attention to pertinent details, to emotional statements, beliefs, and habits of others. Check it out.

 

It is also assessing the person and their personality so we can factor out the defensive or quirks of the speaker that may hide the message below that they are really saying. Too often people get defensive to others defensiveness and the communication becomes a war. When we see the others personality( perceptual biases, emotional biases, belief biases, and habits) then we can begin to see the message below; see what they see, feel what they feel, understand their beliefs, and habits BUT really what they are trying to say in spite of their biases. They may only be sharing their pain, asking for comfort, or just wanting to be understood

 

Perhaps the biggest mistake we make in communicating is to try and solve other peoples problems as we perceive them and get in tangled in a world of confusion and defenses. This is a general answer so far. I can go on and define some rules if you want me to. So let me know.

August 30, 2013 at 11:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

A Joyful Messenger
Member
Posts: 296

How do you not become defensive when the other person is being defensive themselves? I'm not even sure what "I" have done wrong. I feel they are just directing their anger and frustration at their whole world at me and not communicating why they are angry.                                              

I am just the last Drop in their pond that makes them overflow with negative emotions. When people get overwhelmed with life, overwhelmed with circumstances alot of the time they start becoming mean and uncommunicative. It makes me want to run away rather than stay.

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**JOYFUL MESSENGER

October 10, 2013 at 1:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ruth Currah
Site Owner
Posts: 567

If someone is defensive they can be listened too. They will communicate if you allow them to. But if you get defensive also they will clam up to avoid the on slot of criticism or anger. It is not an environment conducive to sharing. Sharing is done in a safe friendly and healing situation. That means both people. They must trust each other even if they are defensive. If just one is unwilling to trust, the situation is not safe for either.

 

The philosophy that 'people get overwhelmed with life a lot of the time and become mean and uncommunicative and you are only the last drop in their pond' is a defensive stance, a non trusting pond that may originate from within. If you project that on others they may feel overwhelmed by your philosophy, trapped by your overwhelmingness, and then they can not trust your anger. You may want to then run away, but that too may be a habit. The defensive philosophy may be the problem.

 

You love the bible. The bible teaches to have a loving, trusting, and positive spirit of faith. Without that everything will go sour. People will not trust you. If the other person is defensive and you are calm and patient with a godly spirit it will work out in time, you could say God's time, not our time. Our time has a defensive limit. Have faith. It reminds me of hearing parents tell their kids to stop crying and love them now or get their butts beaten.

October 14, 2013 at 11:29 AM Flag Quote & Reply

realsisters2@gmail.com
Member
Posts: 259

I have been thinking about communication. I know its very important. But it seems to me it is overrated. Or at least verbal communication seems to be. It seems to me that I talk and talk to others and very little is remembered or even paid attention too. And most of what we say is just chit chat prattle. To me its is like wearing clothes. Most of the time we are not impressed and certainly don’t remember most of it. Maybe all of life is like that. We just whittle away the time. The chips fall where they may and nobody cares.

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April 22, 2014 at 11:38 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ruth Currah
Site Owner
Posts: 567

It may not be a problem of caring but of remembering and incorporating what we hear. Our speech is like a movie. It should have a setting with characters, an emotional tone, a plot or theme, and action. We do not remember most of what is said in the movie, but we tend to remember our favorite character, their feelings, their main thoughts, and actions. Our brains love a story because that is how our brains are set up, to perceive the situation, value certain things, plan how to get it, and then follow through. When we talk too much in abstract there is precious little for the senses, emotions, plans to act to grab a hold of, and so no action is taken. There is nothing, to hang on to, to remember. If we are an expert in an area we can fill in all the data we need to remember, but not if we are a novice. So a mechanic can give me a solution to a problem with my car, but if I don’t know what he is talking about, if I can't see, feel, think, or do as he says, well, I go to the next mechanic. We say a Doctor has bad bed side manners when he leaves us in the dark as to what is happening to us, has a cold uncaring attitude, no explanation of why a treatment will work, and only says to stop drinking, take an unknown drug. or exercise more. That usually does not lead to rehabilitation. We often need a whole program with caring people to walk us through it.

April 24, 2014 at 12:04 PM Flag Quote & Reply

realsisters2@gmail.com
Member
Posts: 259

How do I know what to emphasize or not. If listening and remembering depends on what you say, perception, emotions, thoughts, and what ever the fourth is, how do we know if the other person can take all that in. What I mean is, how do we know what the other person needs the most of, how do we know if they need more description, or more drama, or more logic? It seems to me that we do not all listen the same or respond the same to the other person’s efforts to communicate. Its like a child hears us differently, has different emotional responses, and thinks a lot differently then an older person. Or men hear it differently and respond differently then women. But I am not asking about ages or sex differences but personality differences. So if I am talking to a person with a lot of fears I have to tone the emotions down. That is easy to see. But what else should we be looking for so we can tone down or turn up our conversation. Does this make any sense? What characteristics in others should we look for to know what to exaggerate or minimize so they remember what we are saying or even know if they heard us?

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April 28, 2014 at 12:04 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ruth Currah
Site Owner
Posts: 567

 

Wow, what the question. Where do I start. Hmmm. Well, Age and Sex differences is probably a good place to start. A small baby can do a lot of observations, and they are learning to love, but they do not do a lot of thinking, or at least not our learned logic, and they react with silence or cries. So to communicate with cuddling and singing to them. We notice that they calm down. Or we feed them if they do not, etc. The thing we do is we experiment and look for the effect or their affect, an important thing to do. That way we slowly begin to learn the personality of the tiny person. All babies react differently.

 

The second lesson to learn is from talking to men or women. We know men to be less observant about certain things, such as women and baby things, and more observant of other things such as cars, sports, etc. Everyman is different and so as we learn who they are the more we clue into their interests and listening abilities. Again, we are the ones listening, being aware of emotions, piecing together our logic about their’s, and watching their reactions.

 

I guess my answer to the question of how to speak so another listens is to watch their reaction to the sensory data we give them, their reaction to our emotional overtones, to our logic we use, and the body language we use. Then we build in our minds a model of their personality so we can hone in on them better and learn to give them a story with the elements they will most remember. A lot of this in instinctual but we can always observe ourselves and them better to improve on it. We probably do the worst job with our teenagers. They are changing so quickly that we loose track of their reactions and begin to preach with the old methods or any methods and get lousy results. My observation is we tend to ignore their emotional need to be validated. That’s a whole different story.


April 29, 2014 at 11:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

realsisters2@gmail.com
Member
Posts: 259

You are basically saying we have to observe their reactions, pick up on their emotional tones, listen to their logic, and watch their actions. That sounds like trial and error and a lot of error. What are some guidelines for different personality types?

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May 5, 2014 at 9:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ruth Currah
Site Owner
Posts: 567

We tend to try and simplify our lives by putting people into pigeon holes called personality types. I am not sure if that simplifies or complicates. To remember the types is hard enough, but people never quite fit into the holes. So we keep trying to cram them in and get frustrated. Since no two people are alike we get frustrated a lot. I am not saying it is all trial and error, and mostly error, but well, maybe I am. Somehow it is more comforting to think of definitive personality types, perhaps as a starting place, and then we make adjustments when we can’t quite cram them in the hole. Hmmmm. OK, lets see.

 

If we take the four stages of the brain; perceptual observation, emotional reaction, thinking and planning, and habits and addictions, and then we classify people according to what they excel in, such as nerdy observers, emotional basket cases, intellectuals, and jocks. A nerdy guy will want us to give him more facts in our communication, a drama queen wants more juicy stuff, a thinker more speculation, and a jock more action packed stories. Then we could say some people have a combination of these, so we could have an observant nerdy guy who is also a doer. So we give them more data and action packed stories, etc. with different combinations. The healthiest combination would be someone who is strong in all four areas or steps and they are about equal in strength. Then we can give them data, emotions, thoughts, or action stories and they will appreciate any or all of them.

 

We been talking about people in their Upper Natures, but lets not forget the people that are dominantly in their Lower Natures. So we have deceivers, greedy, blamers, and addicted or aggressive people. How do we communicate to them? Perhaps by lies, tears, blaming others, and aggression or addictions. And we all know people that only respond well to such nonsense or tomfoolery. And yes, we tend to mimic their beefs or gripes. Are you asking how we talk to them without doing that?

May 8, 2014 at 10:07 AM Flag Quote & Reply

realsisters2@gmail.com
Member
Posts: 259

No, but since you mentioned it I think I do. I don’t want to fall into the traps of other peoples dysfunction. I want to know how to respond to people that happen to fit into the classical personality types such as bi-polar, paranoid, delusional, etc. But your approach seems intriguing. Expound on it more. But most of all how do I talk or communicate with difficult people. They seem to always be around somewhere or where ever I go to work, play, or shop.

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May 12, 2014 at 2:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ruth Currah
Site Owner
Posts: 567

I will give you more detail. I have never used pictures before so I don't know how to make it smaller But this is the key to which animals represent which brain steps: Perceptions, Emotions, Thinking, and Actions with the Upper Nature's widgets on the left and Lower Nature's widgets on the right. Ok next:   

Lets see what an average person we call normal would look like. From left to right their Upper Nature is very conscious of itself, insights into their streenths and weaknesses. Their perceptions, emotions, thinking, and actions are about then same. Their lower natures are smaller, they are not defensive.


The next picture is of a Schizoid person's widgets. Schizoid is a very unpleasant term they use to discribe what we generally call a Nerd. I prefer Nerd as it has less negative conotations.


 

The first guy on the left is consciousness, or consciousness of the consciousness process. We call it insight. It is not as big as it could be. Ant and Bee, perception, is very large, they love data and facts and the more you give them the happier they are.


Fear is standing on top of love, Nerds may have a big heart but they are not real connected to it, they are not sure how to express love, so they suppress it. In general, you do not want to express too emotional drama, they may not interpret it as you do but as annoying.


Next is patient Turtle and tiny Rabbit. Nerds are usually not very active but are so patient they procrastinate a lot. So don’t expect quick action from them or you will get annoyed. I have made logical thinking small then we would expect as they think they are very logical. But their logic misses a lot of what is practical everyday logic of the emotional social world and instead they may be substituting that with the world of fictions, sci-fi or comic book episodes. So Crow is bigger, but also Nerds tend to blame others a lot. That may be due to others blaming them for not following emotional logic. So it may be a defense system and it is best not to chastise them for not having common courtesies as long as they are not really hurting you. Remember, everyone varies, so this is a general picture of a Nerd. Give facts, avoid too much drama, and don’t take their comments too personally.


I have made their Lower Nature larger in general. But this may not be true of all Nerds. They tend not to lie, deception seems to take emotional cleverness. But in general they can seem greedy to others as they may not be quick to share. But they are not, in general, greedy type people. Coyote is also small. Nerds are often more to themselves then aggressive. But if they have been criticized a lot as children, because they are different, they may be aggressive at times. But it will probably be passive aggressive or an awkward and fleeting burst of negativeness, their aggression may even seem child like. Nerds may be on the tail end of the autism spectrum, or on the tail end of Aspergers spectrum.


If this is what you are looking for let me know and I will go on. Please pick which personality type you are looking for and I will do my best to draw and comment on it.

May 13, 2014 at 11:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply

realsisters2@gmail.com
Member
Posts: 259

That’s interesting. If people are defensive what do we do? I have seen defensive Nerds and it was very unpleasant. What can I say to them then? They will not listen to my side, nor do they sympathize with me. It is like I have to grin and bare it, or grin and bear it. So what do I do when they are unreasonable, uncaring or at least seem to be. And what do I do if they get whooping mad? I find that they are not wanting to be reasonable about anything at that time. What personality disorders would be?

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May 19, 2014 at 10:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ruth Currah
Site Owner
Posts: 567

I suppose the thing defensive Nerds and defensive most other people have in common is that they are not very social at the time. They are emotions in the raw without being smoothed over by sociableness. That is one reason we call them personality ‘disorders.’ You could say that is probably true of all personality types but perhaps not as true of love dependent people. They may be more easily brought back from unsociable rage into caring again.


 

Lets look at love dependent people and then look at what can be done to get out raged people back into their emotional senses again. As you can see they have a very large heart. That is the key to get them to look at you again. But You also notice that the consciousness, Mr. Do, at the upper right is smaller. They can be wrapped up in their own need for love and ignore you. So you have to appeal to their awareness of your own lack of love and willingness to love back.


With Nerds (see image on May 13 above) you see the love is small, they may have a big or normal heart but its not attentive. You will also notice the Nerd is not aware of, or lazy of, the fact that you are upset. But they are very patient. So you want to take advantage of their patience. The best way to get through to them is to chill, do nothing for awhile, they will calm down and act as if nothing happened. No grudges. Why no grudges? Because they are not thinking in social ways, their blue birds is not huge, they are living in fantasy logic, and in fantasy logic grudges are soon forgotten, much like kids, they are upset but a cookie later they are best buds again.

May 20, 2014 at 3:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

realsisters2@gmail.com
Member
Posts: 259

I have a question for you. At work there is this guy that never does what you ask. Then he turns around and blames you for not doing what you asked him to do. Others call him passive aggressive. What is going on inside his head. Why is a person passive aggressive? 

May 28, 2014 at 11:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ruth Currah
Site Owner
Posts: 567

A passive aggressive person is aggressive by being passive. If you need something they will not respond and let you suffer. But, to call someone someone passive aggressive they need to be aware that that is what they are doing. A nerdy person or someone with Aspergers syndrome or autism may not respond if they do not recognize you are in pain.

A psychopath or sociopath may be passive aggressive but really they are doing it as part of an outright aggressive act, they are teasing and preparing you for more torture. Let me show you a graphic difference between the two.

As you see the passive aggressive person has awareness, his Mr.Do consciousness (upper left) is large. as is his senses, Ant and Bee. But his Tuttle is large, he is overly patient or passive. Coyote, (below right) is large as is Dragon. Other widgets are normal, fear a little larger, heart and seeing the bigger picture (the blue bird) are a bit smaller.

Now lets look at a psychopath and then you can decide if the guy at work is passive aggressive or more of a psychopath.

 

Now lets look at a psychopath and then you can decide if the guy at work is passive aggressive or more of a psychopath.

All the Lower Nature Widgets in a psychopath are larger and his weird way of thinking is out in front. He is deceptive, greedy, blames others, and is aggressive. He generally has little or normal patience (turtle), smaller heart, and very little fear. It is the little fear and little heart that makes them so dangerous at times because with little fear you are more impulsive and without out a heart you have little empathy or no conscience so what is to stop you but the risk of being caught. You will notice his Rabbit (energy) is high, that adds to impulsiveness.

In short psychopaths can be passive aggressive as a ploy to zap you good, but a more purely passive aggressive person is more of a stubborn I don’t want to attitude that does not see the bigger picture of what cooperating could bring. Nerdy guys are more innocent in their ploys as they by genetic see less connection between the heart and actions, and they tend not to see the future very well, they tend to live in the moment and are not aggressive.


May 29, 2014 at 10:29 AM Flag Quote & Reply

realsisters2@gmail.com
Member
Posts: 259

The guy at work is definitely only passive aggressive. He has fear, at times is very loving, but has stubborn streaks. He does not seem to be a Nerd. He can be very sociable at times. But so can psychopaths, they can be very friendly right? We had a guy here that others said was psychopathic, they eventually got rid of him. But he was every bodies friend until they discovered he was steeling from the company. Why is that, that he can be a friend and stab you in the back? And why does the Psychopath have a smaller Aggressive Coyote then the passive aggressive. What makes them act out and do terrible things to others, like the guy at work, or the guys doing public shootings? It seems to me we all have a bit of every personality, or the situations brings it out in us?

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June 3, 2014 at 5:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ruth Currah
Site Owner
Posts: 567

Me: The passive aggressive is being aggressive, the Psychopath is often not being aggressive, they are just more likely to do you dirt because they are impulsive with a small conscience. But if they consciously want to be aggressive and begin to hurt others on purpose we call them a sociopath. As you see in the picture of the Sociopath that he is much more aggressive, (Coyote), much more delusional (Crow), and is often driven by delusional fear (yellow Macho Scardy Cat). I say delusional fear as they tend to be fearless as the psychopath is but they have delusional, or weird thinking not tied to reality, and that fear drives them to be outwardly aggressive. Often with mass shooting the guy behind the gun has become delusional because of the medication they are on to try and get them to behave better or to have less delusions. Any medication, because our body chemistry is so different in everyone, tends to help a third of the people, do nothing for a third, and harm or make the last third worse. Add testosterone to the mix, and psychopathic tendencies, and you can have some real problems as you have seen. Young men with guns should never be placed on certain meds, the same meds that make young women suicidal.

June 5, 2014 at 7:36 PM Flag Quote & Reply

realsisters2@gmail.com
Member
Posts: 259

Life seem to be getting too complicated. A better life through chemistry seems to have complicated things. How can we be safe. Now I am thinking I am a paranoid person. Are we all getting paranoid by the complications of modern life? How do we separate paranoia from reality? What can calm us? Is the whole world getting crazy? Sometimes I wonder if the world is getting better or worse. I know a lot of people who refused to have children because they didn’t want to bring them into this world. Do you think we have gone down hill as a whole?

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June 11, 2014 at 9:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ruth Currah
Site Owner
Posts: 567

I have no doubt that the world is a better place then it ever has been and I think it will get better and better. When I look at past history of wars and disease and plagues I can’t help but feel for those people. They experienced death more then we do. So do poor third world countries still. My grandparents grew up in a third world atmosphere. In the middle ages it was not uncommon that only one fourth of the children survived. We forget what the past was and we get into the news and media and begin to think the world is going down hill. Perhaps our perception of the world has gone down. There are so many breakthroughs in science and medicine that we can’t keep up with them. We get overwhelmed with all the changes.

 

Perhaps we are seeing too many new and scary things on the news and on the internet that we don’t have time to absorb them and put them into place. What the world had before our time was more time. They had more time to sit back and observe the stability of their times. Perhaps they had a clearer view of what is right and wrong. But mostly they had more time to put it all into a perspective that helped them create religions that helped them feel safe and secure. I am not suggesting their religions were like a narcotic that fooled them, I am saying their religious thinking was a product of their contemplations that gave them a sense of well being in a world of uncertainty of health and wealth. Perhaps they were calmer because they had time to interact and enjoy each other's company. Perhaps our internet world is entertaining but is a lonely and scary place.

 

A paranoid person is someone who has unreasonable fears when others in the same situation do not and the reason for the fears seem to be uncalled for. When a whole group of people are paranoid there is probably explainable causes that are justified by their perceptual experiences, such as a down turn in the economy, or the news bringing together all the worst things in a world of seven billion people.

In my depiction of a paranoid personality I have put a large Macho scary cat figure with a small Geru garden bird that can not see the overall picture and with a large Crow, or delusional way of thinking. If we are situationally paranoid our Geru can free us from that with better facts. If we are truly a paranoid personality all the facts in the world will not help. So for normal people the large fear, large delusion, and small garden bird is only temporary and fleeting.

June 12, 2014 at 1:12 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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